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Is this supposed to become user-friendly, at some future point?

asked 2015-04-15 14:24:59 +0000

anonymous user


updated 2015-04-15 14:28:37 +0000

This is more of an observation than a question... I'm looking at Docker (and Project Atomic) because 1] Docker's been getting a lot of (IT) press lately as the next great thing in cloudy server/SAAS deployments, and 2] I want to evaluate its utility for occasional provisioning of assorted servers, including http+php and node. And let's be clear about one thing: on pretty much any current Linux server that's already dead easy.

But AFAICT, doing it on Project Atomic (and maybe/probably other optimized-for-docker linux releases) is ludicrously difficult, tedious and time-consuming. I dodged CoreOS after a quick sniff, because I'm a long-time Fedora user, and hoped to leverage that experience: "It provides all the benefits of the upstream distribution". Not.

Is Docker a solution in search of a problem? What's the promised land look like anyway?

I get that PA/Docker are supposed to provide enhanced security and easier deployments on reduced resources. Where's the beef on that middle one?

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answered 2015-04-22 13:34:38 +0000

OK, so this is my 0.02$USD (currency conversion on your own recognizance)

Will Project Atomtic be user-friendly at some point. The goal is yes, see the new "atomic" binary and Cockpit. But to what sort of user is just as important a question. I see Project Atomic as a container hypervisor (container-visor? ick), not a standalone system you'd use to easily host one or two containers. The use case split is the same as the oVirt Hypervisor from Fedora Server with KVM. My local setup for testing I don't use an Atomic host as the Kubernetes master in a cluster, just to get access to more tools like ansible. But with privileged and super-privileged containers being worked on, that gap closes quickly too.

If you are looking for a promised land of Docker, I'd suggest checking out Jessie Frazelle's talk at ContainerCamp this year https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsLZz... . Yes, she works for Docker, but still pretty cool stuff. Not your typical use of Docker, but has a lot of merit.

For me, Docker is about delivering applications, so highly useful for some, not at all for others. Kubernetes in particular, looking back at Atomic, is about deploying multi-container applications (3 http+php frontends with a 3 node mongodb replicaset) as a single pre-plumbed unit and being able to do rolling updates when changes come down the pipe. Occasional provisioning may not be the right fit, b/c it is dead easy. If you look at https://www.docker.com/resources/usec... , notice that almost all the cases are around continuous deployment, PaaS, and scaling.

On the "all the benefits of upstream" we absolutely do (Fedora). But. This project is less mature than the main distro. The main component upstream projects for Atomic move much faster than Fedora stable at this point, and the project team is looking at pulling Fedora Atomic out of the regular stream of releases based on the experiences of working in the mainstream for F20/F21/F22. We've had issues between rpm-ostree updates because kubernetes releases changed things internally. Because flannel wasn't ready. Because, because, because. Docker is getting a lot of press, but remember the initial release was 2 yrs ago. That's like Fedora Core 4 vs Fedora 21. Major difference. But the reason Project Atomic can try to keep up is that the focus is on a smaller subset of projects, not a complete distribution from the ground up. Stable SELinux, kernels, DBus, systemd (love it or hate it), bash, less, ss, are the benefits of upstream.

Sorry if I got a little ranty.

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Asked: 2015-04-15 14:24:59 +0000

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Last updated: Apr 22 '15